Lager vor Dahn

[Horner]

Hey Goose,
Bilder sind immer wieder gerne gesehen, um das schriftliche auch viesuell darzustellen
Also, wenn Du möchtest, dann lass die Bilder mal das laufen lernen

Gruß
Horner

[Firefighter]

Hallo Goose,

Zunächst ein herzliches Willkommen hier im Forum!
Vielen Dank für deine Informationen zur RASP 972.
Es freut mich das mittlerweile sogar ehmalige US-Soldaten sich hier in das Forum "verirren".
Dein Deutsch ist vollkommen ok, der Text ist gut verständlich. Ansonsten kannst du auch in Englisch schreiben, die vielzahl der Nutzer hier sollte es verstehen.

Zu deiner Frage ob es die Depots Lemberg und Ruppertsweiler noch gibt.
In Ruppertsweiler stehen noch einige Lagerbunker, Lemberg wurde komplett zurückgebaut.
Unterstand das Depot Leimen nicht auch der 20th Ord Co?

Bilder sind natürlich gerne gesehen!

Viele Grüße aus Dahn :-)

[rubeck1]

Hello Goose, welcome!
Schön, dass Du hier mitmachst. Über Bilder würden wir uns sehr freuen.
Dein Deutsch ist o.k., my English for example is just terrible

[Goose]

Hallo Firefigher!

Thank you so much for the warm welcome, and thank you for inviting me to write in English. I can express myself much better in English and perhaps many readers will even understand proper English better than my “G.I. German.” 

I will try and scan some old pictures this weekend and post them to the site.

If you are from Dahn then perhaps you sometimes run into some of the old guys who worked at 972?

I didn’t spend much time in the city of Dahn except for the annual Dahn dorfest and Kerwe we hung out mostly in Pirmasens, Muenchweiler, and sometimes Kaiserslautern (K-town).

We hung out a lot at a place outside the gate in Muenchweiler called Richie’s Pub. Does anyone know if it is still there?

Thank you for the information on Lemberg and Ruppertsweiler. As there may have been strategic differences between a PSP (Lemberg & Rupp.) and a RASP (Dahn) I forget what they were. This is now so long ago.

I don’t know much about the depot in Leimen, unfortunately. If it was under 20th control it was after my time.

For the longest time Dahn was run by the 83rd Ordnance Co as a hybrid unit with a small cell of US Army personnel who oversaw a large German civilian workforce (CSG). We let the CSG’s run the show and we took care of the administration and other duties. What was unique is that the CSG’s had a high level of skills and competence in ammunition handling, carpentry, heavy equipment operation, etc. Much more than the Americans. Not that the GI’s were unskilled, but soldiers rotated in and out on a constant basis while some CSG’s have worked there all their adult life. I think the US leadership knew this so that is why these hybrid units were so effective.

About 1989-1990, the 20th Ordnance company was moved from Regensburg to Dahn and the 83rd personnel were re-assigned to the 20th. The 83rd existed only on paper and all it’s property locked up in one of the small huts in 972 and signed over to me. I was the so-called 83rd Ord Co commander until it was effectively de-activated. There was a change of command ceremony and everything, although I did no real commanding of anything.

When the 20th took over everything changed. The 20th was a full strength conventional ordnance unit and the dynamic of the once-hybrid unit changed.

About that time, the 20th took over control of the Saarland depots. I do not remember their PSP numbers or the exact towns, but I would be curious if they are still there. I remember they were older than 972 with older model bunkers.

As for the caves and underground sites around Muenchweiler, Ruppertsweiler, Lemberg. I don’t know much about them. We didn’t talk much to guys in other units, as we tended to be tribal. Camaraderie was high and rivalries between units great. We were not one big happy family as you might expect.

I believe the underground sites were stocked with medical supplies and the caves were NATO facilities. I do remember talking to some German Bundeswher guys who served in the caves. We took a tour inside the cave in Ruppertweiler once and I recall it was a massive signal and communications center.

The 20th/83rd was a pure USAEUR unit and not a NATO unit. Units committed to the NATO alliance had a different chain of command. Also, it is worth mentioning, NATO countries tended to contribute not their best units to NATO for selfish reasons.

As for 972, we basically spent our time operating the depot like any other logistics facility. We received new munitions that arrived from the US through the port of Bremerhaven, then via train to Meissau (is it still there?) then by truck to 972. We shipped out older munitions on our Sales to Allies program, mostly to South Korea. Camp Dahn is made of Dahn 1, Dahn 2, and Dahn 3. D1 is where the HQ, ammo operations center, and kantina were. D2 is where the motorpool and troop barracks are, and D3 is the depot. You meet them in order as you travel on B427 from Hinterweidenthal toward the town of Dahn.

One thing about security I remember. We tried to run as tight a program as we could, but there was one guy who was allowed to come in and out of the depot as he pleased…and that was the local Forestmeister. No Army regulation was strong enough to regulate his access. What power these guys have! 

I live in Sweden now and work for Volvo, and I want to return to the area soon to see the old sites and look up old friends. Our Hausmeister at 972 managed to get me to join the Pfalzerwald Verein Ortsgruppe Winzeln, when I was there. Maybe I’ll drop in on a meeting 

During the first Gulf War we were very active shipping ammo to the Persian Gulf which began a new era. The Soviet Union collapsed about the same time. I got out of the Army shortly after that, which in the end, seems appropriate, as now my experience is purely one shaped by the Cold War.

I have seen the Youtube video a local kid made about 972, and it was strange and sentimental to see a part of my life now as something as an attraction of days gone by. The shot of the security console in the guard house is very clver and has an eerie quality to it. But I clearly remember when it was alive.

I also remember Gate 17, way in the back of the depot. It was the best guarded gate. Right outside there was a lake and girls would sunbathe naked in the summer. Gate 17 was well-guarded during the summer!

Thanks again for the memories. It is really weird and rewarding at the same to write about this. I’ll try and post some pictures soon.

Gruss!

http://www.usarmygermany.com/Sont.htm?http&&&www.usarmygermany.com/USAREUR_City_Pirmasens.htm

[rubeck1]

I also heard about Gate 17 and the well-guarded naked Girls ... By the way: gate 17 is deleted (correct?) but the girls still are sunbathing there every summer...
Ich weiß das natürlich nur vom Hören-Sagen...

[Rex Danny]

I also heard about Gate 17 and the well-guarded naked Girls ... By the way: gate 17 is deleted (correct?) but the girls still are sunbathing there every summer...
Ich weiß das natürlich nur vom Hören-Sagen...

Klar, wer´s glaubt!

[Firefighter]

Jaja, das Gate 17 am Rohrwoog - auch besser bekannt als "Naggichweiher"
Anbei ein Bild vom öminösen Tor :-)

@Goose

Ich antworte dir zunächst mal in Deutsch und hoffe das du alles verstehst. Wenn nicht, bitte bescheid geben.

If you are from Dahn then perhaps you sometimes run into some of the old guys who worked at 972?

Da ich noch nicht sonderlich alt bin erinnere ich mich nicht mehr wirklich an die aktive Zeit der RASP, ein paar ehmalige
CSG-Jungs sind mir allerdings vom Namen bekannt.

We hung out a lot at a place outside the gate in Muenchweiler called Richie’s Pub. Does anyone know if it is still there?

Meines Wissens gibt es Richies Pub in Münchweiler noch.

For the longest time Dahn was run by the 83rd Ordnance Co as a hybrid unit with a small cell of US Army personnel who oversaw a large German civilian workforce (CSG). We let the CSG’s run the show and we took care of the administration and other duties. What was unique is that the CSG’s had a high level of skills and competence in ammunition handling, carpentry, heavy equipment operation, etc. Much more than the Americans. Not that the GI’s were unskilled, but soldiers rotated in and out on a constant basis while some CSG’s have worked there all their adult life. I think the US leadership knew this so that is why these hybrid units were so effective.

About 1989-1990, the 20th Ordnance company was moved from Regensburg to Dahn and the 83rd personnel were re-assigned to the 20th. The 83rd existed only on paper and all it’s property locked up in one of the small huts in 972 and signed over to me. I was the so-called 83rd Ord Co commander until it was effectively de-activated. There was a change of command ceremony and everything, although I did no real commanding of anything.

When the 20th took over everything changed. The 20th was a full strength conventional ordnance unit and the dynamic of the once-hybrid unit changed.

Vielen Dank für die umfangreichen Informationen zur Geschichte der beiden Einheiten.

About that time, the 20th took over control of the Saarland depots. I do not remember their PSP numbers or the exact towns, but I would be curious if they are still there. I remember they were older than 972 with older model bunkers.

Die Depots im Saarland waren in folgenden Orten:

-Differten
-Wadern
-Merzig
-Marpingen

Mehr Infos gibt es hier:

http://www.geschichtsspuren.de/artikel/ruestungsproduktion-logistik/110-nato-depot-saarland.html

As for the caves and underground sites around Muenchweiler, Ruppertsweiler, Lemberg. I don’t know much about them. We didn’t talk much to guys in other units, as we tended to be tribal. Camaraderie was high and rivalries between units great. We were not one big happy family as you might expect.

I believe the underground sites were stocked with medical supplies and the caves were NATO facilities. I do remember talking to some German Bundeswher guys who served in the caves. We took a tour inside the cave in Ruppertweiler once and I recall it was a massive signal and communications center.

Das ist korrekt, in den Stollenanlagen lagerten medizinische Dinge, C-Rations/MRE, und anderwertige Ersatzteile, aber keine Munition oder Waffen.
Einige besondere Stollen gab es, unter anderem Ruppertsweiler (Primary War Headquarter 4ATAF / CENTAG) und Massweiler.
Massweiler war bis in die 1970er ein Sonderwaffenlager, danach für Kommunikation/Fernmeldedinge
Bei Dahn im Moosbachtal (Schneidereck) gab es einen Stollen in dem Funktechnik gewartet und repariert wurde.

As for 972, we basically spent our time operating the depot like any other logistics facility. We received new munitions that arrived from the US through the port of Bremerhaven, then via train to Meissau (is it still there?) then by truck to 972. We shipped out older munitions on our Sales to Allies program, mostly to South Korea. Camp Dahn is made of Dahn 1, Dahn 2, and Dahn 3. D1 is where the HQ, ammo operations center, and kantina were. D2 is where the motorpool and troop barracks are, and D3 is the depot. You meet them in order as you travel on B427 from Hinterweidenthal toward the town of Dahn.

Das Depot Miesau gibt es noch, derzeit immernoch das größte US-Depot ausserhalb der USA.

Viele Grüße nach Schweden :-)

[Goose]

Danke, Firefighter, für die Beantwortung meiner Fragen. Ich war immer neugierig auf diese Dinge.

Ich habe technische Probleme mit dem Hochladen Bilder auf der Website, so werde ich versuchen, einen Link zu einer Flikr unten angegebene Konto. Es gibt Bildunterschriften auf die Bilder, um zu beschreiben, was sie sind. Die Bilder sind nicht so spannend wie ich mich erinnere Fotografie im Munitionsdepot (Dahn 3) verboten war.


Ich freue mich auf Ihr Wissen über die Armee-Artillerie-und Material in der gesamten Pfalz erstaunt. Sicher haben Sie Ihre Forschung getan. Sie wissen viel mehr als ich. Damals habe ich glaube ich war mehr daran interessiert, was in den lokalen Kneipen und Gasthäusern als die Munitionsbunker. Aber diese ziemlich typisch für die meisten Soldaten in den meisten Armeen von jeder Epoche ist, schätze ich. Allerdings sehen sowjetischen Soldaten marschieren auf der Straße, wenn ich in Ost-Berlin zu Besuch war erinnerte mich an die Ernsthaftigkeit von dem, was unsere Pflicht war alles über.

Hoffentlich das funktioniert ....

Mit herzlichen Grüßen

http://www.flickr.com/photos/7529345...7635197621691/

[rubeck1]

Super diese Fotos!!

[rubeck1]

@ Firefighter: "Naggichweiher"? Es spricht der Insider. Steht dieses schiefe Tor immer noch da herum? War schon länger nicht mehr vor Ort.

[Goose]

Dass ist Gate 17 in deine Bilder, Firefighter! Ich erinnere es mich gut

[Firefighter]

@ Firefighter: "Naggichweiher"? Es spricht der Insider. Steht dieses schiefe Tor immer noch da herum? War schon länger nicht mehr vor Ort.

Am Rohrwoog sind recht häufig "FKK-Badende", deswegen Naggichweiher. Insider bin ich bestimmt keiner
Das Tor steht schon lange nicht mehr, die komplette Zaunanlage mit einer Länge von etwa 8,5 km wurde Ende der 90er rückgebaut.

@ Goose

vielen Dank für die tollen Fotos!
Bilder vom Lager 3 (Munitionsdepot) hast du keine? Ansonsten sind weitere Bilder natürlich auch gerne gesehen.

Walter Elkins, der Betreiber der Website www.usarmygermany.com würde sich übrigens bestimmt darüber freuen, wenn er deine Erinnerungen /Bilder an das Lager Dahn auf seiner Webseite veröffentlichen dürfte.

Mr. Elkins hat selber viele Jahre bei der USAEUR in Europa verbracht und spricht fliessend Deutsch und Englisch.
Vielleicht kannst du Ihn ja mal kontaktieren: walter.elkins1@gmail.com

Viele Grüße,

[Goose]

@Firefighter

Vielen Dank für Mr. Elkins Kontaktinformationen. Ich könnte ihn wenden.

Leider habe ich noch keine Fotos von Dahn 3. Das Foto wurde in Dahn 3 verboten, aber jetzt habe ich wünschte, ich hätte in einer Kamera schlich.

Im Jahr 1995 besuchte ich dort mit meiner Frau und ein paar Fotos von den Bunkern, aber das ist nicht dasselbe.

Ich möchte hinzufügen, dass wir besuchten auch die Kaserne in Münchweiler, wo unser Bataillon HQ war und fand es ziemlich lustig, dass es Immobiliaranzeigen bis das sagte so etwas wie

"Kaufen Sie diese Eigenschaft! Premium-Lage ... Gute Preise! Rufen Sie heute! 7863498988.

It looked funny as hell!